I am an ELCA Lutheran. Baptized, confirmed, worshipping, offering, helping, and now, PROUDER THAN EVER.
The UP Churches didn't decide anything. The ELCA did. Your family, friends, neighbors, colleagues and fellow citizens did.
Tom Skrenes, Bishop or not in this area, DOES NOT speak for me.
The Church - my church! Has spoken. What a great day to be part of a revolution of love and inclusion, the consistent message of Jesus.

All churches will follow suit as the number of church members has fallen so much in the last 30 years.Too bad they will never reproduce to help the congregation increase. These people should be allowed to go to church to try and get God to forgive their sins.

on the Concerned Mother. What a bunch of nice Christian folks..the point of this entire issue is the Luthern Church made a decision. But the local Luthern Churches don't wish to follow that decision. Like I said before it is our church our decision. Stay out of it. If you don't like it go to another Church. If you are not Luthern it does not pertain to you so butt out!

To the gay people: you have yet to rebut Concerned Mom's points. It is one thing for you to lie and make up scenarios but it is another thing to talk rationally and agree or disagree with the points others make.

A bunch of Perez Hiltons, mad at a nickname like Mom just because they have issues with their own mothers.

I knew a gay guy. He stole oxycontins from everyone and then got into trouble. Afterward, he called people names like bigot.

Looks like your gay rainbow arches over the sky and then down to hell.

Don't Shun the Bigot title. Pick it up off the floor and wear it proudly, you've earned it. There are for more articulate points to be made. Re-read every post you have ever made on WLUC's comment boards. Great counter points have been made by Educated, professional and inteligent people in response to your "One-Trick-Pony Bible Regurgitation." In fact they have been stated over and over. That is why the only conclusion and logical statement left to make is you are a bigot. You cannot even defend you are not without cutting and pasting. At this point, I think you ought to be "Out"." Loud and Proud" even. Take off your white sheet and cone hat, use your real name and embrace your hate-fueled bigotry. After all most of us in Marquette learn to hate the bigotry, but love the bigot.

I truly believe concerned mother is in the closet. I believe she truly has had dreams about having sex with women. I bet she sits at home each day and wonders what being in love with another woman would be like and I bet she wishes she could get up the nerve to tangle in the sheets with a person of the same sex. I bet she would throw her bible away if she had the nerve to be honest. Yes indeedy, she resents gay people because they have something she wants.

The bible says God DID create them, male and female.

Have another handful of annexia and shaddap.

Every single person who claims to believe in God-believe in different ways. It's like seeing god through many windows. The creator, higher power, god, force, being etc is all of the same. It's like looking through a kaleidoscope; one lens-millions of views.
We have to look at the crippled, the mentally retarded, the music makers, the mothers, fathers, the preachers, the consumer, the manufacturer, the homosexual, the heterosexual, the president of the United States, the criminal, the judge, the judged, the doctor, the lawyer, the brick layer, the baby, the sister, the brothers, the black, the white, the blue, and we all have and deserve the same rights, the same equality.
If we believe in god then we have to believe that this same god created us all. There should be no difference in the care we have for eachother.
My god is no different than your god. We just get to death in different ways. Be happy!

This whole issue is about whether or not the christian religion should be based on the bible or if it should be just whatever the people want and feel is right. Is a priest obligated to teach whats in the bible? Also what does the bible really say?
To start with we ALL are sinners even the priests. But a priest has to study the bible and take an oath to uphold gods law for himself and to teach others. It is a serious matter James 3:1&2. Mathew 7:21-23 shows that there would be even those who truly would believe they are doing Gods work but yet are considered false prophets and that MANY would follow them on a path leading to destruction- Mathew 7:13. So we have a life or death obligation to check for ourselves to see if what we are learning is truth 1 John 4:1. Rather than just blindly follow, why not be as a student learning from a teacher- read the textbook and ask questions?
Many people are sick of religion yet that does not mean God is not real or does not know or care about what is going on. The bible itself shows that this is exactly what would happen. But the point is all of this is for a reason and the bible tells the answer Mathew 24:19 ,Romans 8:20-22.
The bible is not full of hate and is not a basis for hating others. It may be represented that way by many but if you look closer it is a message of hope as well as a warning. All those laws were to teach compassion- to show we ALL are sinners and need forgiveness Ezekial 18:30-31. It is to humble us so as to repent. It is to teach us to love. Love does not hate, does not murder, does not condemn, and is not prideful-1 Corinthians13. The scripture that says that is what you were is not achieved by hate or by force. People change out of love and respect for our creator. Jesus came to earth to teach and help not condemn and force mathew 20:25-28,Mathew 9:11-13.
We really have a need to get to know the bible and God for ourselves. Its a matter of life and death and i for one will not leave it up to blindly following.

The Old and New Testament doesn't change its message just because you have a hissy fit.

Have any of you read the whole Bible? I have.

The same anti-homosexuality of the Old Testament is repeated in the New Testament. I see someone says the Greek word for homosexual means something else.

Although that's not true (and pretty neat how the scripture says "do not be deceived!), well what about the Aramaic and Hebrew?

The Bible is a lot of things at once:

* it's a Rosetta stone of sorts, the same theme covers many languages and that is one incredibly clever way the Author prevented wrong interpretations.

* its a practical guide for ancients and moderns alike. Some people say "the Bible forbids shellfish and cheeseburgers, therefore who cares?" I don't' personally believe it means you're kicking God in the crotch if you eat shellfish, but in the ancient world it was a practical instruction and today we know shellfish is loaded with cholesterol. And the "unclean" birds and all that, they too are loaded with cholesterol.

* The bible is clear that we should feed the poor.
Tell me something, gay advocates. When Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans, WHAT was sent there?
Food, shelter, water. No one said these things were to be denied to homosexuals.

Local Jail: Jail provides food, water and shelter. They don't change that because you're a gay inmate or not.

Charity to St Vincent De Paul: you don't donate sexual objects nor pornography, right? Are you getting my point that the charity in the Bible is the basic needs that we should deny to no one?

I also DON'T think charity includes crack pipes, pornography, annexias nor Oxys, booze, nor Dorothy's red ruby slippers from the Wizard of Oz.

So gays want to misquote the Bible claim that "it's Love" when people embrace anything - read the Bible before you go to church. It's not a long book for nothing. If it were simply 10 Commandments then it'd be a quick read right?

Lastly, Peter, you give me the title of bigot, because that is all you have to give in the first place.

"Concerned Mother" always post on an issue dealing with gay rights, gay progresses or gay people in general. And, she always shows her true colors. A bigot. Plain and simple. Anyone who thinks it is OK to have two sets of civil rights for different portions of the populace is a bigot. Now, religion is separate institution. All religious/spiritual and institutions of worship should be allowed to practice what they believe. I just happen to think the ELCA got this one right. "Mother-Bigot", what is your fascination with this subject? It obviously does not affect you.

Oh, I read the one sentence you pointed out that makes your study worthwhile. The point of your post simply states that, in your opinion from your history working with mentally ill people, most of them that were homosexual were mentally ill. Stop and re-read that. Again, I say to you, you were working in mental health field. Your findings only show exactly that. Everyone you worked with was mentally ill. Of course the gay ones had problems too. They all did!

You can only attest to what those mentally ill people told you? I can not believe that you can honestly try to say that you learned all homosexuals are mentally ill, from a "study" you did within an extremely narrow margin of cases. You can argue that one sentence all day, the fact of the matter is, case study shows nothing without a wide range of people. If you went out into the real world, and surveyed homosexuals for chemical imbalances like bipolar, you would have a legitimate case. But you didn't, and you don't.

Those poor people you were supposed to be helping. Your post says you used to work in the mental health field, thank goodness you don't anymore. You can laugh until you are blue in the face, quite frankly I am shaking my head and feeling sorry for the poeple you were supposed to be helping.

From everything that I have ever read about, everything that I have been taught in "the church", from what I have witnessed in life and also what I have read here is yet another reason why I do not believe in organized religion. Talk about whack jobs. People twist all that jumble that they so-call read in the bible to their own liking. They just take out a verse here or there. It is jumble that was written and rewritten, intrepreted and re-interpreted by many common humans. Kind of like the message tag game we used to play in school. You don't know if what is written now is the exact same as it was written in "the beginning". These idiotic posts just confirm to me that most christians are biggots. What happened to love your neighbor as yourself and all the other humbug? What about not judging as that is only supposed to be god's job. Funny how christians have always thought of themselves as all knowing and anyone who does not believe exactly as they do is going to hell. What a joke. Get over yourselves and your fear of anyone or anything different than your small minded selves. I'll keep a seat warm for you.

Many good points have been made, but each church has its own right to decide what to allow. People can just choose to avoid the situations they don't like. I have gone back and forth on this subject few times because it is a form of discrimination to not allow them certain rights but also it is against the scripture to practice homosexuality. Why not make both sides happy tho and give Exactly the same rights to the same sex union as marriage gives!!
To me tho, weather looking at it from a christian standpoint or an evolution standpoint it isn't a normal act. (no, not because it is a smaller population of the world) but because the most basic instincts we have are to live and perpetuate the species (look at every living thing ever, be it humans, plants, bacteria, single cell organisms, ect)(if they can't do this they are weeded out/different). Others have used the adam and eve standpoint to say this, stating male+female = species reproduces and continues the species.
Whatever, homosexuality happens tho and they are still humans. They can still lead productive lives have an impact in the good of the world. As others stated, unless a person is doing harm to others leave them be. Their are plenty of other problems in the world then to waste much time debating this in the government and so on. We each are allowed believe what we want to, and who is to say what religion is right or wrong / what denomination is right or wrong. I know i have contradicted myself many times in this comment but like i said it is something i have gone back and forth on a few times. Overall, christianity is a big part of the united states tho (aka. its on our money, many of our laws are based on it, also what is it that we sware on in the court room when we sware to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth???) Just don't call it marriage between gays is all i say. And as for weather a gay can serve in a church, their are many different denominations that allow different things, if one wants to allow this let them and call it something else. Those people that don't like it will just not attend.

Homosexuals did not exist? In the roman army it was common for soldiers to have young boys as lovers. Is that not homosexuality? Sexual acts with those of the same sex? Do you from "rome" not know roman history ?

1 Corinthians 6

Many say this translation is incorrect - just as Yaweh was once transalated to Jehovah....

The Greek in the original text where you read "homosexual" is actually a word that meant "male prostitute." This word was also used for "coward."

The people we now call "homosexuals" did not really exist in the time that this was written.

What part of:

"However, I can only attest to what those mentally ill people told me. I cannot attest to any other groups of homosexuals."

did you not understand??

Let's not forget that not every person who is mentally ill seeks or received mental health services. For argument's sake, how do you know whether those 'homosexuals' who are not receiving help need it or not??

It is I who am now laughing at you!

In the old testement God had a chosen people, the Jews Exodus 19:5. As his chosen people they were given a set of commandments -not just 10 but many. Leviticus includes many laws. These seperated the people from those of the nations and protected them as they lived by Gods standards and not mans. These laws also showed they were imperfect and required that they make sacrifices to show that they wanted and needed forgiveness. Galations 3:19-25 states that the law was a tutor leading to Christ. Christ provided a model for us to follow closely 1 Peter 2:21-25 and also a perpetual sacrifice for sins when we fall short 1 John 2;1-7. The law we are to follow now is that stated in Mathew 22:36-40. It is to be noted that Romans 13:8 points out how this applies. These laws are not burdonsome as God loves us and wants what is best for us just as a parent wants what is best for their children 2 Peter 3:8-9.

-you asked! The Bible (pretty foundational to any Christian church let alone the Lutherans) states the following:

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

I have to comment on your remarks...you state that you worked in the mental health field, and that at least 75% of the homosexual men you worked with had serious disorders and/or were on meds for such disorders. Um, hello? YOU WERE WORKING IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD!! Every single person that you worked with had mental issues of some sort! What do you expect? Of course they all had mental issues! That is NOT the same as working with the general public, and getting a broad range of study regarding the issue. That was down right laughable. That is like saying, I work at a college, and 75% of the homosexual people I met were students. Wow. Imagine that!

I am not arguing the issue of homosexuality, and couldn't care one way or the other what the church does regarding it, but your "findings" were a bid skewed don't you think?

I've often been confused about the Bible. There are two testaments. Old testament is Jewish law. New testament is Christian law. Sometimes they contradict each other. What "laws" given to us by god are we to follow as Christians? Old or new testament?

Sorry this has nothing to do with gays, but the debate on this post made me wonder.

Hmmm...this is very interesting. I wonder how many of you have ever read "Tortured for Christ"?

It is written by a man who lived in Russia and Romania prior to WWII and afterwards as well. He described how the socialist and then communist parties slowly wormed their way into the churches, eventually to the point where even the ministers/priests were replaced by communists. He describes how Christianity was replaced by a 'state religion' which no longer taught Christianity, but instead taught ideologies and how non-conforming churches were closed and the people imprisoned. The true Christians then had to go underground and hold secret church meetings in basements and barns, warehouses and 'abandoned' government buildings.

It sounds to me like the 'left' and (eventually) their socialist agendas are slowly creeping into the churches of the United States!

It might be effective for TRUE Christians to study up and learn how to identify the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' that is talked about in the Bible. It's reared it's ugly head in the past (with socialism and communism) and it appears that it is now doing so again by way of sexual immorality and .....what's next??

I would like to remind everyone who is Lutheran and might be looking for another church to join:

Not all Lutherans are in the ELCA. There are also Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod Lutherans and they DO NOT condone nor promote this. They are NOT connected with the ELCA and stick to what is right.

If you look around, you will find them. If you are currently in an ELCA church and it's the only Lutheran church in your area, poll your congregation and find out what it might take to leave the ELCA and join one of the other two synods.

I was raised in the ELCA and am going to either move to a different church or --- if others in our church agree to check into it --- push for leaving the ELCA and get involved in another synod.

Good luck and God Bless!
Also...check the ELCA website to learn who we, the ELCA, have full communion with. I believe at least one other church in that agreement promotes homosexuality. Sad, very sad!

There is a difference between sinning and promoting sin.
We all sin, yes. One sin is as another. But to openly FLAUNT your sin and be proud of it is quite a different thing. To promote sin as acceptable is also sin and is the devil's way of leading people astray. The key to being forgiven is "REPENTING" of the sin, i.e., 'go and sin no more'. Continuing to knowingly and willingly engage in sin simply because 'God forgives' is a slippery slope created by a person's sinful nature and promoted by satan.
A homosexual pastor in a 'committed relationship' cannot possibly lead a church in the right direction simply because he/she is NOT repenting and continues to willingly defy God. AND anyone else who is willfully and defiantly committing sins, as a pastor, is also in violation of this trust of the body of Christ. They need to also be removed...be it a pedophile, a philanderer, etc.,
END OF STORY!

When I was growing up, we had a homsexual person in our congregation. He lived his life quietly, as all people did in those days...homosexual or otherwise. We knew he was homosexual. We saw him out in public with his 'significant other' or 'life-partner', whatever you want to call him. No one minded because we loved the sinner, hated the sin.

BUT the difference is that he never tried to promote his lifestyle as "THE" lifestyle. As though it were a trendy thing. THAT is what many -- if not most -- homosexuals in this country are doing these days. It is taught in schools that it's 'okay' and 'normal'.
NOW we have churches condoning it??

It is nothing short of ABNORMAL! I have worked in the mental health field in the past. And I have to tell you something that I very quickly observed: about 75% of the self-proclaimed 'homosexual' men I encountered were also bipolar or had some other serious mental illness....not BECAUSE they were homosexual, but rather 'in addition' to being homosexual.

Of those 75% of men, when they were taking the prescription meds for their mental illness, they admitted to not feeling as attracted to other men as when they were 'off' their meds. And they also felt more attracted to women than usual.

However, I can only attest to what those mentally ill people told me. I cannot attest to any other groups of homosexuals.

It must be noted, however, that of the 'homosexual' children, most of the homosexual boys grew up without a father or had an emotionally detached father while growing up. There were also the group of boys who were more sensitive and less 'boyish' and who were told that being sensitive and enjoying cooking, sewing, etc., is not normal boyhood behavior and is only for 'sissies'. This, many admitted, led them to believe that they were gay. Self-fullfilling prophecy. If you call someone 'stupid' or 'smart' enough times, they will believe it and act accordingly. This is particularly true when those labels are placed on a person in early childhood.

Of the girls, they had issues with their mothers and craved their mother's attention and since their mothers were emotionally unavailable, they turned to other girls for that emotional support and to learn social skills. Most described normal feelings toward other girls...such as admiring another girl's hair or how the other girls carried themselves or got along with others. This is very common as girls grow up, they often observe the looks and actions of other girls to learn what is desirable and acceptable. These are normal feelings with most female children...admiration of the attributes of others and wanting to emulate them. However, the 'homosexual' girls stated that they were told either by other children or the TV/Media that only 'lesbians' admire other girls. Not having mothers who were willing to give proper feedback regarding these feelings, the girls believed what their friends and the media told them. Most did not have a reliable mother figure in the home in whom they could confide, these girls were confused and thought that what their friends and the media/TV said must be true.

They all lacked the social skills needed to understand that people can love other people and it does not mean that they are 'gay'.
THAT is simply being confused and NOT being homosexual. There are many 'ex' homosexuals who will gladly explain the gender confusion issue, if any of you want to learn about it, talk to someone who can lead you in the right direction.

In response to these words by Concerned Mother:

"I see homosexuals arguing people like me must hate them. Well that argument goes both ways: aren't YOU the ones who are hating, because the acts you commit are considered obscene, disease-spreading, and aren't you hating because your family name can't be furthered by what you do?" "Gay Agenda"

First of all, before you want to imply or assume that gays are out there spreading diseases, you might like to know that HETEROSEXUAL WOMEN are the number carriers of HIV/AIDS. In regards to obscene....I find it obscene that you and everyone else who considere themselves Christian and like to pretend to be Bible experts spew nothing but hatred completely disregarding what religion is supposed to be about. It seems religion is only used these days as a weapon to persecute and cast out others. I'm sure that's exactly what God had in mind. Family name....just so happens that this gay was never proud of his family name in the first place, and did it ever occur to you that some family names don't deserve to be passed on? Lastly, I'd like you to tell me and everyone else just what this Gay Agenda is....If you know, please let me know so I don't miss the next meeting! As a gay, I should know what the agenda is looking to accomplish, right? Concerned Mother, I pray for you, that's right, pray, that the day one of your kids tells you that they are gay you can handle it....God forbid the last thing you'd want them to do is go out and spread diseases!

Homosexuals are denying that heterosexuals over populate the earth. I'm quite sure that many gays that want to have a family they adopt. So there should be no argument that God created "Adam and Eve." I do agree that it takes a man and woman to create a baby. I am not arguing that heterosexuals are wrong. Creation of a human is scientific fact. But for people to condemn others because they love someone of the same gender and calling them abominations, evil, sinful, discusting etc is indeed wrongWe the gay people are not trying to take away any rights from heterosexual people. What we are asking for is the same and equal rights. Gay couples are denied 1000's of rights that straight people are getting-that is not right.
So the people that are calling gay people evil and against GOD maybe need to get some love intheir hearts. For we ae not asking to take anything away from you. we only are fighting for what is justly due us.
And watch the news; we are getting our rights. From the tops of our heads to the tips of our little toes....right to the pillows we rest our heads on.God did create each and every one of us. No one is above or below another. and no one is better than another.

They should have all the rights that you have.

You don't have to like them. Just give them their rights. Hate them all you want. It's a free country and you're free to hate anyone you want to hate.

They deserve all the legal rights you have, and they deserve to live in peace, to own or rent a home to live in, to live free from harassment from people like you as well.

Live and let live is just not enough for some people. They have to pass laws against people and constitutional amendments and everything else.

The constitution gives you the right to worship at your church. The constitution gives gays the right to live the way they want too. Your kind passed an amendment to the constitution to keep them from living their lives in peace as they please. That is hateful, there isn't another word for it. What if there was an amendment passed that took your rights away? That would be hate too. It's all fun when the hate is directed at someone you don't like. But what it they were your family? What if they were your friend? What if it was you?

Also - they aren't like theives and such - they don't hurt anyone. They are just like you and me. Find another group to feel make you feel superior. Your kind is inferior if you ask me.

I'll make one other comment on the procreation issue.... Most of human sexual activity is not for procreation. When heterosexuals have sex, it's primarily for bonding and expression of their love, not for procreation.

It's my belief that nature does intend for human beings to use their sexuality to express love and to bond with one another. Many species cannot have sex unless they are in season to procreate. Humans can have sex just about any time, nature has done this for a reason - we use our sexuality to bond and to express our love and to re-enforce the pair bond.

How many times have you had sex in your life? Did you produce a child each time? Did you intend to?

Should we make contraception illegal?

I know sometimes straight people think their whole reason for living is to breed. That might be your vision of life. It is not mine. As far as future generations are concerned, I see my role as someone to assist parents, but not as a parent. Furthering my family name and procreation is something I'm really not interested in. My siblings are doing fine with that, and there are some 6 billion people on the earth now, 90% of them are handling that job just fine.

As far as being a "spreader of disease," you should really check your facts there. I know sometimes people think that AIDS is a judgement from God and it's because we're gay that people get it. The truth is in most countries, it's a heterosexual disease first and foremost. It was your luck that gay people were the first to get it in the Western world, and the heterosexuals had their early warning to practice safe sex. The fact is that if your hypothesis is true - then God loves lesbians. The group that has the lowest incidence of STD's is lesbians.

Not every Christian denomination views us with the same disdain that you do either..... my church does preform gay weddings, and gay people are treated the same as everyone else. The sky has yet to open up and swallow us all.

I'm sorry you have such ill will for people like me, and have such strange ideas about us. Perhaps it would do you well to meet some gay folks and get to know them as people - instead of a "group."

But - if you think we should be treated differently - sorry - I pay taxes like you do - I don't break the law - and I should have every single right that you have. Second class citizenship is not acceptable - that is hate, but you can call it what you like.

Quite frankly I'm not as interested in this subject as others are, I believe others have made better arguments pro and con that we have here. So I will only entertain your contempt toward me temporarily:

There's some arguments that go something like "we don't squat down and crap in the desert anymore as per Exodus, so why buy into any of the rest of the shellfish instructions, or what is called an abomination?"

For that matter, are we all Jewish like the Old Testament is written to? Do we "remember" the Sabbath (Saturday) which is the only commandment that says "remember the"?

I can't remember seeing a Jew OR Christian or Gentile or their asses (bible language) - rest on Saturday.
So your screwed.

We all know a thief, we all know a drunkard and we all know a homosexual. They won't change their behavior. They say it must be in their DNA that they behave that way.

I see homosexuals arguing people like me must hate them. Well that argument goes both ways: aren't YOU the ones who are hating, because the acts you commit are considered obscene, disease-spreading, and aren't you hating because your family name can't be furthered by what you do?

Aren't you hating because -Nature- didn't make Adam and Steves DNA procreate a female child? The nature argument trumps us all, when in doubt.

All of the arguments go both ways (not meaning Bi).

Like I said in rhetorical terms, I won't deny a drunk or a thief something to eat, nor a homosexual or anyone else.

There's a place in existence where we're one and the same.

It's an entirely different matter if a drunk or thief or homosexual imposes laws stating what they do is right "and you'd better agree or else".

I'll fight against the last one, but overall I still think if you want to get to the heart of the Gay agenda, like most things, follow the money.

yes there are children born into this world who are not blessed to have the loving and caring parents they deserve. And that truly is the shame of the human race. However, my children do not fall into that catagory. My children define who I am, I have been blessed to have wonderful, happy, healthy, children I made with my husband - thier father.
My statement was and is, God wants the human race to populate the world, you can't do that.

I read all your Bible passages - not one word about gay people......

From what you picked you seem to think gay people are evil - but The Bible doesn't seem to say so - not in the passages you quoted.

It would seem you've misrepresented His Word - and that is a heresey. Perhaps you should pray about this?

Bearing false witness - and speaking falsely in the name of The Lord.... these are big offenses. Please consider your soul my brother. Don't play games with the word of God.

Miner's Wife - You say its hard to be fruitful and multiply if you are of the same sex... that is very true. However, given that there are plenty of people being too fruitful and multiplying too much - given all the children up for adoption and those that use abortion as birth control (subject for a different day, but abortion should never be a substitute for birth control). There are many monogamous gay couples that would gladly take the opportunity to raise some children. I daresay that they would probably also be better prepared for the world with the unnate acceptance bred into them. So, feel free to be fruitful and multiply if you are straight or bisexual. If you care to be against homosexuals because they can't be, well, maybe you should take a good look at what the 'ideal' christians may be doing and actually raise the children they have.

Check out these scriptures...2 peter 2:1-10. Then look at this one revelation 18:4. These things are the way it is to be and gay is here to stay for a reason. Romans 1:24-28 clearly states it is for a reason so what should one do? 2 peter 3:9-13

Concerned mother - your argument is outright flawed. You state that you don't treat gays differently than straight people, until they consider themselves gay christians... do you not see the irony or conflict in that statement? You also mention the King's translation - that is what the bible is, translated. I doubt you speak aramaic or ancient hebrew, thus how do you know that things are translated correctly? Are there not multiple translations for a single word?

I am not a christian, but am part of a large religious movement - those that started yours, the jews as I am sure you are aware. I am also gay. I also do charity, follow the 10 commandments, pray, and follow the old testament in many ways. I daresay that I am a better christian than you, because you are not following the prescription of your religion - to be accepting of others, as they do unto you. Would you be upset by the fact that I disagree with your argument, thus I will not chastise you or ban you from being part of a community?

You spend many hours being concerned about issues that do not affect you, Concerned Mother, I fear that you are missing out on life and are scared of the world in which you are in. The gays are going to infiltrate your church, Kennecott is going to possibly mine in the Yellow Dog, and you are likely at home biting your nails. I pray that you can come to a common ground of happiness, before its too late and you succumb to your paranoia.

Jeremy Johnson,

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE.

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ON TRACK.

Kinda hard to do if you are not with the opposite sex.
I thank Bishop Skrenes. As it happens I am Luthern I go to church. We had meetings a few years ago regarding allowing gays into the church and/or as pastors. Apparently Bishop Skrenes is following what his congregations indicated they want! It is our Church, it is our decision, if you don't like it go somewhere else. Try a Catholic Church I am sure they would open thier arms to a gay Priest!

So many pick-and-choose which scriptures they like to live by. Why are so many against gay ministers, yet have no problem with pastors who are/have been adulterous? Is the one sin worse than the other?

Will you also deny the right to pastor a church to those who fit this scripture?

Proverbs 6:16-19 16 These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.

I don't mean to condemn anyone ie: thoughts, opinions, religious beliefs, as we are all here and should be treated equally.
I don't understand how someone can put a preacher, pastor, priest, religious leader etc above any other person. These "leaders" are human and every single human being makes mistakes. I do not know or will ever know what any "God" is feeling. Seems to me if I could tell you how "God" is feeling I might be a God myself. According to all the reading I have done, GOD never existed, nor did GOD walk the earth, but many people claim they can know how GOD feels, and what GOD is going to do to people. In that case then they must be a GOD because they assuredly have powers beyond any human forms.
I stand up for gays, lesbians and transgendered. And I believe that heterosexual people are afraid of homosexuals. When people are afraid they retaliate,(hate) therefore making themselves an abomination in GODS eyes.
There isn't anything wrong with gay people. They deserve equality just as the next person. Sexual preference is only between the people in the act, not to be demanded of change by outsiders. All the people who use specific quotes from the bible had better read the entire story behind that quote. I'm quite sure if you do you wouldn't beable to use that specific quote again. Many people fail to see or understand the bible. Only using specific quotes for their benefit can be an abomination in and of itself.
I say hats off to the Luterans. After all I don't understand why the heterosexuals are afraid of gay marriage. As if it will take away significance from their own marriage. I've seen a lot of heterosexuals totally make Marriage a joke! Especially when divorce is so rampant among them. Ofcourse with divorce,comes rape, incest, premarital sex, unwanted pregnancies, cheating sexually on their partners, etc, etc, etc.
I say we all just get a long together and stay out of eachother's bedrooms.

The only place in The Bible that addresses it says it is the same as eating shrimp, or a cheeseburger - both of which are Old Testament abominations.

What shame is there in misquoting God himself?

The Bible verses posted John 8:44 talks about lust - not homosexuals.
1 Corinth 10:13 - is about temptation - not homosexuals.
Ephesians 6:14-15 - is about truth.

Only the Old Testament addresses this issue - and puts it into the same list with eating a cheeseburger.

Leave the gays alone. If they make gay marriage legal tomorrow - I won't turn gay.

The book of Leviticus - the only place in The Bible the even mentions homosexuality - calls it an abomination. It is odd that those who say The Bible condemns homosexuals, forget to read the next few paragraphs in this book of the Old Testament - Leviticus also condemns eating shellfish, eating dairy with meat, making garments from two kinds of material, and sowing seeds of two different kinds in the same area. These are all abominations in Leviticus - so how's that shrimp? How's the lobster? How's that cheeseburger? According to Leviticus - if you're eating any of these things - you're no different than a homosexual.

Concerned mother: Why are you concerning yourself with things that don't affect you one ioda (as you would put it)? Please explain why anyone who is gay and calls themselves a Christian is affecting you in any way that you should concern yourself with such things. There is no affect other than your own issues you have with gays that are internal and based on hate and a complete lack of education and understanding. Answer the question of how it affects you personally that someone is gay please???

God so loved the world, that he gathers every abomination together in one building Sunday morning so the people he really loves can sleep in at home, take a breather for a couple of hours, and not have their spirits assaulted by special interests who contradict the word of God.

I don't treat homosexuals one iota different than anyone else, but the minute they want to say that it's okay to be a Gay Christian, well, you're going to have to show me the Kings Adam & Steve Translation and see what that one says, because all the other translations say it's the same as being a drunkard, or thief, or all the other bad ones. You bad.

"But Concerned Mother" you say, "we think you sin all the time" well THAT's probably a good idea for me to stay off the pulpit don't you think? LOL

Guess what everyone, another shocker for ya....THERE ARE GAYS IN THE U.P. ALSO!!! And we're not leaving so get used to it!!

If you read scripture it is clearly evident that homosexuality is against God's creative nature. God did not create homosexuality - satan did- and it is a sin. God clearly loves sinners - and we are all sinners - and calls us to repentance. Homosexuals are absolutely welcome in our church - as is everyone who wants to come to a saving knowledge of Christ and break the bond of sin, including homosexuality. How can a homosexual preach the scripture when he or she is clearly not living after it?

What a breath of fresh air to finally hear of a Pastor/Preacher who is not afraid to offend and stand for the Truth.
Churches around here are so into what's put in the plate as it's passed around, instead of taking a stand for the Bible and what it preaches. Homosexuality is a sin; a sin that can be forgiven, a sin that will not happen when one accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour!
Finally, a Pastor who is concerned with how Jesus feels, instead of the "world." God bless you, and thank you.
1 Corinth 10:13
John 8:44
Ephesians 6:14-15

Jeremy, you are correct, gay people are everywhere, they've always been around, and they have long lasting committed relationships. I always like to ask straight people what affect one's sexuality has on them personally, nobody has ever answered this question. It's merely some hate with nothing substantial to back it up, like other forms of hate and discrimination. I would never argue another's sexuality seeing that it's personal and all and I wouldn't want someone arguing mine.

Gay people should not be allowed to serve as a minister in any church - period!! It is unbelievable that this has even been thought about, let alone passed. The last time I checked in the Bible, God does not condone homosexuality in any form and considers it an abomination. I do not understand how the Lutheran ministry can allow this! People are NOT born homosexual - it is the lifestyle they have chosen. They are NOT homosexual because God made them that way.

In 50 years, the gay-rights movement will be viewed in the same light as minority rights or women's rights. Those who oppose this movement will be viewed as equal to those opposed the aforementioned movements.

So, G MAN, how does it feel to know that you will eventually be held in the same regard as those who opposed an end to slavery or a women's right to vote?

G Man is just another hypocritical "Christian". Jeremy, good for you for speaking up!

For those who don't know - I'm going to break something big to you - there are gay people in the world. Next big thing - there are gay people who live together in committed relationships.

This is as stupid as when the clergy didn't allow people to use forks to eat, defended the theory of a flat earth, and imprisoned Galileo.

There are gay people everywhere - and God made every single one of them, and he made them gay. Get over it. You'll just have to find someone else to hate and feel superior.

If they allowed gay marriage in every state tomorrow - my life wouldn't change at all. I don't care if gay people want to marry each other. I don't care if gay people want to come to my church.

ONE REASON IM NOT LUTHERAN